New PC to Build

> I'm going to build a new computer for myself and I'm looking for some
> advice. I currently have an Enlight 7237 atx medium tower case, Asus
> A7N8X mb with AMD xp 2500 cpu, 2x256 DDR3 pc 2700 memory, and a Ti4200
> video card. My computing needs are pretty modest. I do a little gaming,
> mostly turn based, spreadsheet, database, etc. The current computer works
> fine at this, but I just feel the need to ramp up a bit, plus I want to be
> ready to run Vista at a good pace.
> > I'm thinking of something like an Athlon 64 3500+ or maybe 4000+ or
> > maybe
> even a 64x2 system. I'm just starting to do a little digging on this, but
> specific questions I have now are:
>
> 1) Can I use the case I have for the new computer?

Yes, but you may need a new power supply. What is the wattage? Does it
have a 4-pin square motherboard power connector in addition to the
20-pin one?

> 2) How about the memory - is it going to work on a new system? Ditto for
> video card, or will I have to go to a PCI Express setup?

Today's computers use DDR2 memory and PCI Express slots so your
DDR1 memory and AGP video card cannot be re-used.

> 3) Should I be looking for an AM2 board or 939 or something else?

S939 is old technology and is being phased out. AM2 is the current
AMD standard.


---
KC COMPUTERS www.kc-computers.com
Computer Sales & Service since 1991!!! See customer ratings at:
www.resellerratings.com/seller1595.html
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In article , Jack Bruss
says...
> I'm going to build a new computer for myself and I'm looking for some
> advice. I currently have an Enlight 7237 atx medium tower case, Asus A7N8X
> mb with AMD xp 2500 cpu, 2x256 DDR3 pc 2700 memory, and a Ti4200 video card.
> My computing needs are pretty modest. I do a little gaming, mostly turn
> based, spreadsheet, database, etc. The current computer works fine at this,
> but I just feel the need to ramp up a bit, plus I want to be ready to run
> Vista at a good pace.
>
> I'm thinking of something like an Athlon 64 3500+ or maybe 4000+ or maybe
> even a 64x2 system. I'm just starting to do a little digging on this, but
> specific questions I have now are:
>
> 1) Can I use the case I have for the new computer?
> 2) How about the memory - is it going to work on a new system? Ditto for
> video card, or will I have to go to a PCI Express setup?
> 3) Should I be looking for an AM2 board or 939 or something else?
>
1) Yes although you'll probably need a better PSU.
2) You're going to need new memory. Vista wants 1GB. Whether you need a
new graphics card depends on the CPU socket choice although a Ti42000
is a bit long in the tooth and most integrateds will give it a run for
it's money
3) If it were my cash, AM2 as 939 is end of life.


--
Conor

The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how
seldom they defeat us.
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"KC Computers" wrote in message

>> I'm going to build a new computer for myself and I'm looking for some
>> advice. I currently have an Enlight 7237 atx medium tower case, Asus
>> A7N8X mb with AMD xp 2500 cpu, 2x256 DDR3 pc 2700 memory, and a Ti4200
>> video card. My computing needs are pretty modest. I do a little gaming,
>> mostly turn based, spreadsheet, database, etc. The current computer
>> works fine at this, but I just feel the need to ramp up a bit, plus I
>> want to be ready to run Vista at a good pace.
>> > I'm thinking of something like an Athlon 64 3500+ or maybe 4000+ or
>> > maybe
>> even a 64x2 system. I'm just starting to do a little digging on this,
>> but specific questions I have now are:
>>
>> 1) Can I use the case I have for the new computer?
>
> Yes, but you may need a new power supply. What is the wattage? Does it
> have a 4-pin square motherboard power connector in addition to the
> 20-pin one?
>
>> 2) How about the memory - is it going to work on a new system? Ditto for
>> video card, or will I have to go to a PCI Express setup?
>
> Today's computers use DDR2 memory and PCI Express slots so your
> DDR1 memory and AGP video card cannot be re-used.
>
>> 3) Should I be looking for an AM2 board or 939 or something else?
>
> S939 is old technology and is being phased out. AM2 is the current
> AMD standard.
>
>
> ---
> KC COMPUTERS www.kc-computers.com
> Computer Sales & Service since 1991!!! See customer ratings at:
> www.resellerratings.com/seller1595.html
>
>Wattage is 250. I'm not sure about the 4 pin mb connector. I'll have to
>look if that's important. I bought this case in 1999, so as I look at it,
>I think it's time for a new one. I see in my old specs it's got room for 4
>5.25 drives and 2 3.5 drives.
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On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 20:02:23 GMT, "Jack Bruss"
wrote:

>> Yes, but you may need a new power supply. What is the wattage? Does it
>> have a 4-pin square motherboard power connector in addition to the
>> 20-pin one?

>>Wattage is 250. I'm not sure about the 4 pin mb connector. I'll have to
>>look if that's important. I bought this case in 1999, so as I look at it,
>>I think it's time for a new one. I see in my old specs it's got room for 4
>>5.25 drives and 2 3.5 drives.
>

Frankly I think you're lucky to have gotten the 250W PSU to
run those parts, it might have had a lot to do with the
A7N8X running the CPU power subcircuit off the 5V PSU rail.

I bought a few of those cases with the 250, 300, 340W, (then
"maybe" 360, don't recall if exact same case on this 360)
and anything under 340 wasn't a very good PSU. IIRC I even
had a system in recently that had one of the 340 with a
blown transistor so my recollection of it is a little better
than most PSU that old.

It (and especially your lower 250W unit) doesn't have the
12V current capacity required for a modern system. The case
you can keep using (though it's ventilation is borderline by
today's standards, personally I'd take out the front bottom
plastic fan mount/card-guide, then cut out the stamped-in
metal fan grills on that bottom front and mid-rear fan
hole(s). It also doesn't (IIRC) force any of the front fan
air past the hard drive rack which is unfortunate, I seem to
recall taking a drive cage cannibalized from another case
and mounting it to the floor of one of those cases so the
drives were sitting directly behind that lower front fan,
better cooled by it.

Otherwise, the case is standard ATX and plenty deep enough
for even a full width motherboard so anything but the
oddball Intel BTX boards will work fine in it... You'll
just need to replace the PSU, preferribly something rated
for a minimum of 400W in a good name-brand rated for minimum
of 18A on 12V rail, or more with a decent video card
installed and/or more than a couple drives. In other words,
ideally the PSU would match the expansion capabilities of
the case including # of drive bays that could have drives,
and supply >= 24A of 12V power.
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>>
> Ok - How about this? I'm still thinking of using onboard video, because
> it must be better than that of my old Ti-4200, right? That's been good
> enough for me up to now. If I don't like, then I can add a card later.
> Now I come out at $700 including monitor, which I want but don't need.
>
> Power supply - Sunbeam NUUO SUNNU450-US-BK ATX12V/ EPS12V 450W Power
> Supply 100-120V CE, UL (CUL), TUV, CB, FCC, FIMKO, SEMKO, DEMKO, NEMKO -
> Retail $50 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817709002
>
> Case - COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UB Black /Blue Aluminum Bezel ,
> SECC Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail $50
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119047
>
> Mb - ASUS M2N-MX Socket AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100 Micro ATX AMD
> Motherboard - Retail $76
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131040
>
> CPU - AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ 2.0GHz Socket AM2 Processor - Retail $148
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103735
>
> Memory - OCZ 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory -
> Retail $130
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820227165
>
> Monitor - AG Neovo F-419 BLACK Black 19" 4ms DVI LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2
> 700:1 - Retail $216
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824163129
>
> CD/DVD - LITE-ON 18X DVD±R Burner Black IDE Model LH-18A1P-185 - OEM $30
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827106042
>
> Video - Use the onboard? Add card later if neccessary.
>
> Hard drive - Use my existing
>>
>

That looks awesome, I wouldn't change a thing. Yes, that onboard video
should work great, for quite a while. I'm typing this on a Ag Neovo F-419,
very sharp monitor. Everything else looks great. I think you'll be very
happy with it. It should run Vista fine also, if you want to. -Dave
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On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 00:14:08 GMT, "Jack Bruss"
wrote:


>Ok - How about this? I'm still thinking of using onboard video, because it
>must be better than that of my old Ti-4200, right?

No, your TI4200 is several times faster than the best
integrated video, and better overall performance even at
non-video-intensive apps due to relieving the system of that
video memory bandwidth.

However, the other important factor is "IF" you want to
eventually run the Aeroglass interface on Vista. TI4200
won't support that, even though a much slower new(er) card
would due to having DX9 support.


>That's been good enough
>for me up to now. If I don't like, then I can add a card later.

That's a fine option then, get the card later if needed.
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"kony" wrote in message

> On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 00:14:08 GMT, "Jack Bruss"
> wrote:
>
>
>>Ok - How about this? I'm still thinking of using onboard video, because
>>it
>>must be better than that of my old Ti-4200, right?
>
> No, your TI4200 is several times faster than the best
> integrated video, and better overall performance even at
> non-video-intensive apps due to relieving the system of that
> video memory bandwidth.
>
> However, the other important factor is "IF" you want to
> eventually run the Aeroglass interface on Vista. TI4200
> won't support that, even though a much slower new(er) card
> would due to having DX9 support.
>
>
>>That's been good enough
>>for me up to now. If I don't like, then I can add a card later.
>
> That's a fine option then, get the card later if needed.

Any comments on the Motherboard (ASUS M2N-MX Socket AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100
Micro ATX AMD )? It's only half the price of the previous one I had
selected, Asus M2N SLI Deluxe socket AM2, and yet it has onboard video where
the M2N does not.
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On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 14:03:59 GMT, "Jack Bruss"
wrote:

>
>"kony" wrote in message
>
>> On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 00:14:08 GMT, "Jack Bruss"
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Ok - How about this? I'm still thinking of using onboard video, because
>>>it
>>>must be better than that of my old Ti-4200, right?
>>
>> No, your TI4200 is several times faster than the best
>> integrated video, and better overall performance even at
>> non-video-intensive apps due to relieving the system of that
>> video memory bandwidth.
>>
>> However, the other important factor is "IF" you want to
>> eventually run the Aeroglass interface on Vista. TI4200
>> won't support that, even though a much slower new(er) card
>> would due to having DX9 support.
>>
>>
>>>That's been good enough
>>>for me up to now. If I don't like, then I can add a card later.
>>
>> That's a fine option then, get the card later if needed.
>
>Any comments on the Motherboard (ASUS M2N-MX Socket AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100
>Micro ATX AMD )? It's only half the price of the previous one I had
>selected, Asus M2N SLI Deluxe socket AM2, and yet it has onboard video where
>the M2N does not.
>

I like Asus boards, think either is a good choice in their
respective niche. If this is your main use system, and used
for more than mundane tasks for a longer period of time then
I'd get a video card and the full sized M2N board, or the
non-SLI equivalent. Then again, part of my criteria is
whether a board will allow more PCI cards while a video card
with a double width heatsink is installed (or allowing an
empty slot for better cooling even if a single width
heatsink as on some passively cooled video cards), partially
because I have several acceptible PCI cards from the past
that I can use and would prefer for certain functions like
audio, or video capture/tuning.

I can't know if you'd have these cards or uses, or would
just run all the intgrated features for the life of the
system. If you can make do with the integrated features,
the mATX board could be a good cost savings. In the past
sometimes I've bought boards with integrated video even if I
used a video card, so later when the board was retired to a
secondary use, the integrated video allowed running without
dedicating another card which for some uses was just extra
power, heat, fan noise, without any gain for the particular
uses. Again I can't know if you would find this useful or
not, everyone has their own goals. In the long run I think
you'd appreciate having the full ATX board and video card
but whether it's worth the extra cost of the card, only you
can decide.
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On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 17:44:40 GMT, dMn
wrote:


>I've been following this thread with interest as I'm starting the
>research to build/upgrade a system this spring. I'm certainly looking to
>take advantage of my existing stuff where it makes sense. But jbruss's
>reply caught me off guard, I have to ask how is it possible that an AGP
>4x card with 255 Mhz GPU and 128MB of 444Mhz DDR memory will outperform
>an integrated PCI Express 425 Mhz GPU with 128MB of 800Mhz DDR2 memory.
> I see a wider and faster data path, faster read and write access to
>memory, and faster processing.
>
>I can appreciate optimizations helping to level to comparison some, but
>what could they possibly screw up to make the integrated card so much
>slower then expected? Does anyone have any comparison data to help me
>see the error of my ways?

They're not "slower than expected", you ignored all factors.
Video card technology is too complex for a usenet post,
pipes and shaders and dedicated busses and latency and
amount of devoted special-purpose silicon, a video card is a
purpose specific device, designed from ground up to do what
it does.

If anything, video card benchmarks aren't hard to find. The
only time you might find a 6100 gaining ground is if newer
DirectX features are enabled and they bring both cards to
their knees. Run a benchmark that does acceptibly on both
and you can make a better comparison, perhaps 3Dmark 2001.
Geforce 6100 might score around 6000 (this is only a
guesstimation, might vary a few dozen %). In one of the
newer (but last) generation Athlon64 systems (as with
Geforce 6100), even a Geforce 3 would easily exceed 6000
3Dmarks.
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>
> Any comments on the Motherboard (ASUS M2N-MX Socket AM2 NVIDIA GeForce
> 6100 Micro ATX AMD )? It's only half the price of the previous one I had
> selected, Asus M2N SLI Deluxe socket AM2, and yet it has onboard video
> where the M2N does not.

I don't like Asus, but I'm one of the few people in the universe who
actually has that opinion, and it is based on professional experience
supporting systems with asus mainboards. In other words, I don't just test
them on a bench for a few hours and write raving reviews... I see how they
perform over time, in real-world conditions, and because of that, I HATE
Asus with a passion. My personal and professional opinion is that Asus has
(generally) good designs, but their quality control sucks ass.

HOWEVER, If you have to use an Asus board, the one you chose is a GOOD
choice. I used to say to avoid micro-ATX boards, for good reason. They
have fewer slots (ram and expansion) usually, limiting their upgrade
potential greatly. But now? Just about everything you need in a computer
is BUILT INTO a mainboard, regardless of format. So having fewer expansion
slots is not such a big deal anymore. And the board you chose has FOUR RAM
slots, which is as much as most full-size ATX boards.

You really aren't sacrificing anything by switching to the lower-priced
M2N-MX over the full-size (and expensive) SLI board you chose earlier. The
larger boards have premium prices because they are in greater demand. And
if you were ever going to use SLI, you wouldn't be considering a micro-ATX
board. SLI boards (like the one you first chose) also have premium prices.
So your savings is (gave up SLI) plus (switched to a smaller board that is
less in demand). Overall, you haven't really given up anything.

You've got three open PCI slots (one PCI-Express X1) in addition to the
PCI-Express X16 graphics slot. That's a lot of expansion/upgrade potential.
With gigabit LAN built in, that means that you might use one PCI slot for a
premium sound card (if you want to), and ... another slot for a TV tuner
sometime down the line? Now you've still got an open slot not being used,
and you haven't even touched your (8 or 10, usually?) USB ports yet!!!

In terms of capabilities, that M2N-MX should be all you need for several
years. It is a good choice, just buy it and don't give it another thought.
-Dave
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On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 22:35:13 GMT, "Jack Bruss"
wrote:


>Thanks, you've answered my questions very well. I will be ordering this
>stuff tomorrow. For what it's worth, I've always used Asus boards and never
>had a problem, although I've only built about 5 or 6 systems total.


Most of the world has used Asus fine, long term,
professionally supported, etc. Dave seems to be randomly
making up nonsense.
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"Dave" wrote in message

>
>>
>> Any comments on the Motherboard (ASUS M2N-MX Socket AM2 NVIDIA GeForce
>> 6100 Micro ATX AMD )? It's only half the price of the previous one I had
>> selected, Asus M2N SLI Deluxe socket AM2, and yet it has onboard video
>> where the M2N does not.
>
> I don't like Asus, but I'm one of the few people in the universe who
> actually has that opinion, and it is based on professional experience
> supporting systems with asus mainboards. In other words, I don't just
> test them on a bench for a few hours and write raving reviews... I see how
> they perform over time, in real-world conditions, and because of that, I
> HATE Asus with a passion. My personal and professional opinion is that
> Asus has (generally) good designs, but their quality control sucks ass.
>
> HOWEVER, If you have to use an Asus board, the one you chose is a GOOD
> choice. I used to say to avoid micro-ATX boards, for good reason. They
> have fewer slots (ram and expansion) usually, limiting their upgrade
> potential greatly. But now? Just about everything you need in a computer
> is BUILT INTO a mainboard, regardless of format. So having fewer
> expansion slots is not such a big deal anymore. And the board you chose
> has FOUR RAM slots, which is as much as most full-size ATX boards.
>
> You really aren't sacrificing anything by switching to the lower-priced
> M2N-MX over the full-size (and expensive) SLI board you chose earlier.
> The larger boards have premium prices because they are in greater demand.
> And if you were ever going to use SLI, you wouldn't be considering a
> micro-ATX board. SLI boards (like the one you first chose) also have
> premium prices. So your savings is (gave up SLI) plus (switched to a
> smaller board that is less in demand). Overall, you haven't really given
> up anything.
>
> You've got three open PCI slots (one PCI-Express X1) in addition to the
> PCI-Express X16 graphics slot. That's a lot of expansion/upgrade
> potential. With gigabit LAN built in, that means that you might use one
> PCI slot for a premium sound card (if you want to), and ... another slot
> for a TV tuner sometime down the line? Now you've still got an open slot
> not being used, and you haven't even touched your (8 or 10, usually?) USB
> ports yet!!!
>
> In terms of capabilities, that M2N-MX should be all you need for several
> years. It is a good choice, just buy it and don't give it another
> thought. -Dave
>
>
>
Thanks, you've answered my questions very well. I will be ordering this
stuff tomorrow. For what it's worth, I've always used Asus boards and never
had a problem, although I've only built about 5 or 6 systems total.

Jack
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kony wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 22:35:13 GMT, "Jack Bruss"
><SNIP>
>
> Most of the world has used Asus fine, long term,
> professionally supported, etc. Dave seems to be randomly
> making up nonsense.
For the record I agree with Jack regarding the ASUS boards. I've had
several with capacitor problems that were a real pain to troubleshoot.
I've burnt one out (a mishap that can't really be blamed on the board).
And had one pentium III board that behaved as if it were badly
grounded or shorted out intermittently. But my Bro in Law is a die-hard
ASUS customer, so I keep going back. Once the systems were built and
burned in, they were usually pretty solid.

dMn
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